公開日：2020/09/10
【加藤綾子さん連載】出世レースよりも、社会や誰かの役に立つのが仕事
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多くの個を束ね、組織を成功に導いている一流のトップには、どんな思考があるか？ 会社のマネジメントにも役立つ“ヒント”を加藤綾子さんがそっと探り、お届けする。
【加藤綾子 一流思考のヒント】
加藤さん衣装：ドレス(ベルト付き)16万2000円／ファビアナフィリッピ(アオイ) ピアス7万7000円、リング（トリプルダイヤモンド）5万5000円、リング（ダイヤモンド）13万6000円、リング（ホワイトゴールド）2万円～／以上マリハ（マリハ伊勢丹新宿店） 靴8万1000円／クリスチャン ルブタン（クリスチャン ルブタン ジャパン）
※最後に加藤綾子さんのスペシャルフォトギャラリー付き！
Profile加藤綾子 Ayako Kato 会話は、とぎれていい―愛される48のヒント 』（文響社刊）など。
坂東眞理子 Mariko Bando
「会社や組織の女性に対する態度はトップの試金石本当に突き抜けている立派な男性は男を振りかざさない温かくて礼儀正しいものです」（坂東眞理子さん）
出世レースに勝利することより社会や誰かの役に立つのが仕事
加藤 今日はお会いできるのを楽しみに参りました。新型コロナウイルス感染防止によるソーシャルディスタンスの確保などで、ここ昭和女子大学の授業も大きな変化があったと思います。
坂東 4月24日の時点で全てオンライン授業に切り替えたのですが、欠席する学生もいないし、課題も9割以上が提出してくれて、録画を見直して復習するとか、総じて学習効果が上がっているように感じます。ただ、昭和女子大学では海外留学にとても力を入れておりボストンにもキャンパスを持っているのですが、そこに学生を送れなくなったことはとても残念です。私も公務員時代にハーバード大学に留学経験がありますけど、勉強だけでなく、見知らぬ土地で生活することは大きな刺激になります。
加藤 坂東さんご自身は東京大学に通われていた学生時代から、卒業後は公務員になって、一生働こうというキャリア志向だったのでしょうか？
坂東 当時は女性が働くには選択肢が乏しく、公務員になったのは消去法で決めました。大学に残って研究者になるのは、魅力的に思えなく、民間企業では女性は受け入れてもらえない。「女子大や短大を出た人ならウェルカムだけど、東大を出た人なんて来てもらっても困ります」と試験さえ受けさせてもらえなかったので、他に選択肢がなく公務員になりました。結婚して子どもが生まれたときも当時は育児休業制度もなく「仕事を辞めるのは当たり前」の時代でしたが、私は家事が得意ではなかったので、落第主婦になるのが見え見えなので仕事を優先しました（苦笑）。そういう自分の苦い経験から、昭和女子大学でキャリア教育に力を入れて「人生を長いスパンで考えましょう」と言っています。深くキャリアについて考えていなかった反省から、学生には若い時から自分のキャリアについて考えるよう働きかけています。
加藤 私もそうだったので、考え方が似ていてなんだかうれしいです（笑）。
坂東 男性の場合は法律が好きじゃなくても、将来のキャリアを考えて法学部を選ぶ人も多いけど、女性は就職する際も自分の才能や趣味を活かすようなイメージで、「自分で食べていかなければいけないんだ」という感覚が少ない。
